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	<title>Comments on: My Formula For Pricing Real Estate Photography</title>
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	<link>http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/</link>
	<description>Helping Real Estate Photographers Be Successful</description>
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		<title>By: Mstolt</title>
		<link>http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-46189</link>
		<dc:creator>Mstolt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Oct 2011 00:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/#comment-46189</guid>
		<description>What an awesome websit. Great discussion on pricing. With all due respect, in reference to setting the price to the commision I think many of you are missing the point. I think Dale was trying to show a realtor that his &quot;new charge theory&quot; is very reasonable, just 1 percent of the total commission. If you would rather, his calulation is .0006% of the listing price. Either way, that seems a reasonable price to charge no matter how you calculate it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What an awesome websit. Great discussion on pricing. With all due respect, in reference to setting the price to the commision I think many of you are missing the point. I think Dale was trying to show a realtor that his &#8220;new charge theory&#8221; is very reasonable, just 1 percent of the total commission. If you would rather, his calulation is .0006% of the listing price. Either way, that seems a reasonable price to charge no matter how you calculate it.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne On Ymous</title>
		<link>http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-33447</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne On Ymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Feb 2011 00:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/#comment-33447</guid>
		<description>&quot;One more reason why it would be preferable for the homeowners in the US to foot some or all of the marketing costs for selling the home, as is customary in other countries.&quot;

A small number of my high end listing agent clients are now charging their clients a &quot;listing set-up fee&quot; of $500 to $1,000. This covers the initial photography and basic print flyer costs for the agent and is refundable at closing. If the home owners aren&#039;t willing to commit to the fee it&#039;s usually a pretty good indication that they&#039;re not fully committed to selling their house.

In the last month I have asked two different home owners both putting multi-million dollar homes on the market
where they were moving to and each replied &quot;Oh, not sure really. We thought we&#039;d just list our house and see if it sells....&quot;

I&#039;ll let you guys take a wild guess if their homes were priced realistically or not.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;One more reason why it would be preferable for the homeowners in the US to foot some or all of the marketing costs for selling the home, as is customary in other countries.&#8221;</p>
<p>A small number of my high end listing agent clients are now charging their clients a &#8220;listing set-up fee&#8221; of $500 to $1,000. This covers the initial photography and basic print flyer costs for the agent and is refundable at closing. If the home owners aren&#8217;t willing to commit to the fee it&#8217;s usually a pretty good indication that they&#8217;re not fully committed to selling their house.</p>
<p>In the last month I have asked two different home owners both putting multi-million dollar homes on the market<br />
where they were moving to and each replied &#8220;Oh, not sure really. We thought we&#8217;d just list our house and see if it sells&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll let you guys take a wild guess if their homes were priced realistically or not&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: David Eichler</title>
		<link>http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-33425</link>
		<dc:creator>David Eichler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Feb 2011 05:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/#comment-33425</guid>
		<description>I agree with Phil. Unlike plumbers and electricians, who must be licensed and serve an apprenticeship, there is no bar to entry for real estate photography. In fact, the standards and the skill set to get started with real estate photography seem to be just about the lowest of any type of professional photography. I have a sneaking suspicion that the value of a professional photographer to the majority of real estate agents is less than that of the people who clean the house and wash the windows, that is, less than a service that uses the most basic kind of unskilled labor. However, it is usually the homeowner who pays for cleaning and washing the windows, as well as other maintenance and repairs of the house, in preparation for putting the house on the market. If those costs had to come out of the agent&#039;s pocket, I would guess that many agents wouldn&#039;t see much value in those services either.  One more reason why it would be preferable for the homeowners in the US to foot some or all of the marketing costs for selling the home, as is customary in other countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Phil. Unlike plumbers and electricians, who must be licensed and serve an apprenticeship, there is no bar to entry for real estate photography. In fact, the standards and the skill set to get started with real estate photography seem to be just about the lowest of any type of professional photography. I have a sneaking suspicion that the value of a professional photographer to the majority of real estate agents is less than that of the people who clean the house and wash the windows, that is, less than a service that uses the most basic kind of unskilled labor. However, it is usually the homeowner who pays for cleaning and washing the windows, as well as other maintenance and repairs of the house, in preparation for putting the house on the market. If those costs had to come out of the agent&#8217;s pocket, I would guess that many agents wouldn&#8217;t see much value in those services either.  One more reason why it would be preferable for the homeowners in the US to foot some or all of the marketing costs for selling the home, as is customary in other countries.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-33424</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Feb 2011 04:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/#comment-33424</guid>
		<description>Whoaaa!  All the formulas in the world regarding what YOU, or WE think it&#039;s worth are useless unless we have an exclusive on our area.  As long as there are folks out there who give their work away...they will set the standard with which us quality shooters will have to struggle with.  I shoot in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metro area, and there are lots of so called photographers around pulling us down.  Some will shoot any home, any size, anywhere for $50.  I cashed in...put the word out that I&#039;m out of that race.  I placed a fee based on sq footage (directly related to time involved) plus mileage, and it dang sure&#039;s not some of the figures I have seen here.  YOU CAN NOT BASE YOUR FEE ON ANY FRACTION OF THE AGENT&#039;S COMMISSION...where in the hell did that idea come from?  Do you have a real estate license?  Do you pay to advertise the properties?  

Hey...I&#039;m all for getting the most I can for my work, but our fees are directly related to what the competition in our area dictates, and what the agents will pay.  If we don&#039;t like that we find another handle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoaaa!  All the formulas in the world regarding what YOU, or WE think it&#8217;s worth are useless unless we have an exclusive on our area.  As long as there are folks out there who give their work away&#8230;they will set the standard with which us quality shooters will have to struggle with.  I shoot in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metro area, and there are lots of so called photographers around pulling us down.  Some will shoot any home, any size, anywhere for $50.  I cashed in&#8230;put the word out that I&#8217;m out of that race.  I placed a fee based on sq footage (directly related to time involved) plus mileage, and it dang sure&#8217;s not some of the figures I have seen here.  YOU CAN NOT BASE YOUR FEE ON ANY FRACTION OF THE AGENT&#8217;S COMMISSION&#8230;where in the hell did that idea come from?  Do you have a real estate license?  Do you pay to advertise the properties?  </p>
<p>Hey&#8230;I&#8217;m all for getting the most I can for my work, but our fees are directly related to what the competition in our area dictates, and what the agents will pay.  If we don&#8217;t like that we find another handle.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremiah True</title>
		<link>http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-33003</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremiah True</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Feb 2011 11:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/#comment-33003</guid>
		<description>This was a really interesting article and one of the first in the search engines, kudos! 

I am just entering this market and found your article to be informative and provided a good base line for where I could start looking at pricing realistically but competitively. In my eyes, for the service I would be providing, $100 - $200 seems a little low but time will tell. 

Thanks for the great information and keep it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was a really interesting article and one of the first in the search engines, kudos! </p>
<p>I am just entering this market and found your article to be informative and provided a good base line for where I could start looking at pricing realistically but competitively. In my eyes, for the service I would be providing, $100 &#8211; $200 seems a little low but time will tell. </p>
<p>Thanks for the great information and keep it up.</p>
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		<title>By: Walt</title>
		<link>http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-31903</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 07:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/#comment-31903</guid>
		<description>Good information!

The theory is probably quite different for apartment real estate...correct? How would you ballpark that? Or...say it was for a property management company dealing in apartment/townhomes? As rentals?

My other question is on usage (off topic?)...if the later were true, when would be good for usage end? calendar year?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good information!</p>
<p>The theory is probably quite different for apartment real estate&#8230;correct? How would you ballpark that? Or&#8230;say it was for a property management company dealing in apartment/townhomes? As rentals?</p>
<p>My other question is on usage (off topic?)&#8230;if the later were true, when would be good for usage end? calendar year?</p>
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		<title>By: RealtyCheck</title>
		<link>http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-31506</link>
		<dc:creator>RealtyCheck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/#comment-31506</guid>
		<description>&quot;Divide the gross commission by four before you start your calculations.&quot;

I&#039;m not buying that. I don&#039;t know of a single real estate brokerage that takes 50% of an agent&#039;s commission on every transaction. And then a separate &quot;desk fee?&quot; Yikes! Time to find a new brokerage. 

Nowadays, the 5% - 6% commission is split between the listing agent and the selling agent. Sometimes it&#039;s 3% to the listing agent and 2% to the selling agent depending on how the listing agent has worded the listing agreement. Then the agent&#039;s brokerage will take a cut from the agent&#039;s commission. For some brokerages this is a fixed percentage for every listing. 15% for example. If your brokerage is taking half of every single transaction then you are being ripped off in a big way. Seriously. It&#039;d be cheaper to start your own brokerage. 

Other brokerages will take half of the agent&#039;s commission until the agent has paid their &quot;desk fee&quot; for the year and then the agent gets to keep their full commission on all remaining transactions. For example, Windermere&#039;s desk fee is about $25,000 a year. They take half of your commission on every transaction until you&#039;ve paid them that amount for the year. Once you&#039;ve paid your &quot;split&quot; then you keep 100% of your commissions until a new year begins. 

Some brokerages will take a percentage of every commission and then charge a separate &quot;desk fee&quot; but it&#039;s usually only a few hundred bucks a year and it&#039;s usually the less successful brokerages that do this because most of their agent&#039;s aren&#039;t doing enough business to take a desk fee out of their commission.

So on a $500,000 home a listing agent might get $15,000 in gross commission (3%). Then the brokerage takes their cut: maybe $1,500 (if they&#039;re taking 10%) or $7,500 (if they&#039;re taking half), leaving the agent with $7,500 to $13,500. For our calculations let&#039;s say $10,000. A decent real estate photographer costs $250 - $500. For our calculations let&#039;s say $300.

So hiring a decent real estate photographer will cost you 3% of your net commission on a single $500k sale. So is it worth it? I&#039;m not going to comment, suffice it to say that an agent&#039;s answer to this question says a whole lot about his/her business acumen....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Divide the gross commission by four before you start your calculations.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not buying that. I don&#8217;t know of a single real estate brokerage that takes 50% of an agent&#8217;s commission on every transaction. And then a separate &#8220;desk fee?&#8221; Yikes! Time to find a new brokerage. </p>
<p>Nowadays, the 5% &#8211; 6% commission is split between the listing agent and the selling agent. Sometimes it&#8217;s 3% to the listing agent and 2% to the selling agent depending on how the listing agent has worded the listing agreement. Then the agent&#8217;s brokerage will take a cut from the agent&#8217;s commission. For some brokerages this is a fixed percentage for every listing. 15% for example. If your brokerage is taking half of every single transaction then you are being ripped off in a big way. Seriously. It&#8217;d be cheaper to start your own brokerage. </p>
<p>Other brokerages will take half of the agent&#8217;s commission until the agent has paid their &#8220;desk fee&#8221; for the year and then the agent gets to keep their full commission on all remaining transactions. For example, Windermere&#8217;s desk fee is about $25,000 a year. They take half of your commission on every transaction until you&#8217;ve paid them that amount for the year. Once you&#8217;ve paid your &#8220;split&#8221; then you keep 100% of your commissions until a new year begins. </p>
<p>Some brokerages will take a percentage of every commission and then charge a separate &#8220;desk fee&#8221; but it&#8217;s usually only a few hundred bucks a year and it&#8217;s usually the less successful brokerages that do this because most of their agent&#8217;s aren&#8217;t doing enough business to take a desk fee out of their commission.</p>
<p>So on a $500,000 home a listing agent might get $15,000 in gross commission (3%). Then the brokerage takes their cut: maybe $1,500 (if they&#8217;re taking 10%) or $7,500 (if they&#8217;re taking half), leaving the agent with $7,500 to $13,500. For our calculations let&#8217;s say $10,000. A decent real estate photographer costs $250 &#8211; $500. For our calculations let&#8217;s say $300.</p>
<p>So hiring a decent real estate photographer will cost you 3% of your net commission on a single $500k sale. So is it worth it? I&#8217;m not going to comment, suffice it to say that an agent&#8217;s answer to this question says a whole lot about his/her business acumen&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca, a realtor</title>
		<link>http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-31495</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca, a realtor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/#comment-31495</guid>
		<description>Your commissions are off base.

There are four parties to each real estate transaction.  Listing agent, listing agent&#039;s broker, buyer&#039;s agent, buyer&#039;s agent broker.

Divide the gross commission by four before you start your calculations.

Also... each real estate office has &quot;desk fees&quot; that vary from 1% - 5% of the gross commission.  Desk fees account for payments to National chains, use of telephone, office equipment, etc.

Also keep in mind that we only get paid when the home sells.  It could take months... so any money paid out for a listing would be a loss, if the home doesn&#039;t sell, or expires and another agency picks up the listing.

Rebecca</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your commissions are off base.</p>
<p>There are four parties to each real estate transaction.  Listing agent, listing agent&#8217;s broker, buyer&#8217;s agent, buyer&#8217;s agent broker.</p>
<p>Divide the gross commission by four before you start your calculations.</p>
<p>Also&#8230; each real estate office has &#8220;desk fees&#8221; that vary from 1% &#8211; 5% of the gross commission.  Desk fees account for payments to National chains, use of telephone, office equipment, etc.</p>
<p>Also keep in mind that we only get paid when the home sells.  It could take months&#8230; so any money paid out for a listing would be a loss, if the home doesn&#8217;t sell, or expires and another agency picks up the listing.</p>
<p>Rebecca</p>
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		<title>By: Jane Haas</title>
		<link>http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-31482</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Haas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 06:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/#comment-31482</guid>
		<description>Okay, being a Realtor for several years, i&#039;ll clear up what everyone thinks Realtors make.  

That commission, usually around 4-5% now is actually divided 4 ways - it&#039;s split in half between the buyer and seller&#039;s brokers, then the broker splits it with the agent depending on the size of the agent&#039;s split which can be anywhere from 48% to 80%.  Then out of those commissions they pay E&amp;O insurance, Local MLS Dues, State MLS dues, National MLS dues, they now have to update their education in many states which means more fees, most advertising and websites and well just about all their phone and technology is out of pocket, health insurance... all out of pocket.  They will usually lease a car because that helps with tax write offs after the gov&#039;t takes their HUGE chunk out of their teeny checks.  Trust me, unless they are married and have a second income, in this market, most aren&#039;t making all millions - 2% usually do most of the business! 

So if they complain about all the fees- that&#039;s why!  And guess what!  They don&#039;t get paid unless the house sells!  If it doesn&#039;t it&#039;s pretty much charity work! lol</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, being a Realtor for several years, i&#8217;ll clear up what everyone thinks Realtors make.  </p>
<p>That commission, usually around 4-5% now is actually divided 4 ways &#8211; it&#8217;s split in half between the buyer and seller&#8217;s brokers, then the broker splits it with the agent depending on the size of the agent&#8217;s split which can be anywhere from 48% to 80%.  Then out of those commissions they pay E&amp;O insurance, Local MLS Dues, State MLS dues, National MLS dues, they now have to update their education in many states which means more fees, most advertising and websites and well just about all their phone and technology is out of pocket, health insurance&#8230; all out of pocket.  They will usually lease a car because that helps with tax write offs after the gov&#8217;t takes their HUGE chunk out of their teeny checks.  Trust me, unless they are married and have a second income, in this market, most aren&#8217;t making all millions &#8211; 2% usually do most of the business! </p>
<p>So if they complain about all the fees- that&#8217;s why!  And guess what!  They don&#8217;t get paid unless the house sells!  If it doesn&#8217;t it&#8217;s pretty much charity work! lol</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/comment-page-1/#comment-30413</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Dec 2010 04:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://photographyforrealestate.net/2008/04/05/my-formula-for-pricing-real-estate-photography/#comment-30413</guid>
		<description>Intersting dialog. I know what my overhead for the year is (based on last years expendures) or you could use your budget. I figure that I only shoot 20% of the hours I work (80% to &quot;other&quot; business activities). Therefore, I know that for each hour that I work I my overhead is about $31.00 / hour. I add what I think my time is worth ($60.00 / hour - and considering SE Tax, and other benefits that actually comes out to about $45.00 / hr). I figure about one 1 hour post processing and posting to my website for delivery. I deliver 15 - 20 images in high res (for printing on flyers / postcards) and low res for web / MLS posting. If they are to be run as an advertisment in a magazine I charge more.
Typically if I&#039;m using only strobes I can complete a house in about 2 hours inside and outside. If I&#039;m doing a house that requires me to use portable flash on light stands or other time consuming set-ups I&#039;ll double the time gestumate.
Real Estate agents are use to paying for services such as home inspectors, well inspections, enviromental inspections, MLS services, etc. in advance. I require payment at the time services are rendered, i.e. when I show up to do the photos. We get all the &quot;paperwork&quot; out of the way including payment.
So, what this means is that a 2 hour on site job goes for about $275.00 for 15 - 20 pictures in high &amp; low res downloadable from my website. Yes, I do turn down work if the price is below what I expect. I don&#039;t work on spec or wait till the property is sold for payment. Other professionals that RE Agents contract with expect payment and so do I.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Intersting dialog. I know what my overhead for the year is (based on last years expendures) or you could use your budget. I figure that I only shoot 20% of the hours I work (80% to &#8220;other&#8221; business activities). Therefore, I know that for each hour that I work I my overhead is about $31.00 / hour. I add what I think my time is worth ($60.00 / hour &#8211; and considering SE Tax, and other benefits that actually comes out to about $45.00 / hr). I figure about one 1 hour post processing and posting to my website for delivery. I deliver 15 &#8211; 20 images in high res (for printing on flyers / postcards) and low res for web / MLS posting. If they are to be run as an advertisment in a magazine I charge more.<br />
Typically if I&#8217;m using only strobes I can complete a house in about 2 hours inside and outside. If I&#8217;m doing a house that requires me to use portable flash on light stands or other time consuming set-ups I&#8217;ll double the time gestumate.<br />
Real Estate agents are use to paying for services such as home inspectors, well inspections, enviromental inspections, MLS services, etc. in advance. I require payment at the time services are rendered, i.e. when I show up to do the photos. We get all the &#8220;paperwork&#8221; out of the way including payment.<br />
So, what this means is that a 2 hour on site job goes for about $275.00 for 15 &#8211; 20 pictures in high &amp; low res downloadable from my website. Yes, I do turn down work if the price is below what I expect. I don&#8217;t work on spec or wait till the property is sold for payment. Other professionals that RE Agents contract with expect payment and so do I.</p>
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